Felicia Lee Dyer (felicialee1) wrote,
Felicia Lee Dyer

Post From 2+2

The weather is really crummy today, so I'm just going to repost something that I wrote on 2+2.


I would like to talk about the rules of many cardrooms put in place to prevent angleshooting.

The problem with angleshooters, is that when there are rules to try to prevent them from manipulating the wonderful game of poker into something they can take advantage of to get an edge, the shooters themselves use the anti-angleshooting rules to shoot further angles.

We've all seen this, given a little live experience.

Scumbags will be scumbags, and they will use any opportunity available to ply their wicked wares.

Angleshooters can't check with chips anymore, so what do they do? Well, if a newbie checks with chips, and they want to get in multiple bets, they call him on it, make a big stink, force the bet to stand, so they can raise. If they want to see a free card, they sit in silence.

If an angleshooter wants a cheap flop, turn or river, sees a newbie trying to raise but not being very successful at it, he calls "string raise" and forces the pot to remain small, so he can get a cheap look. If he wants to build the pot, he fights for the right of the string raiser, claming the raiser said "raise" and he heard it, it was just too quiet for the dealer to hear, and the other side of the table. Then he promptly reraises.

If a player grabs money out of his pocket during the hand, an angleshooter will swear that he had the money on the table before the hand started, if he has the best of it, while doing the opposite if he has the worst of it. He will demand a floorman to be called, demand a look at the tapes, throw a huge fit, if he loses the hand, so that he can limit his losses.

If it benefits an angleshooter, he will attempt to move the button forward himself, or not correct the dealer if the button is accidentally moved forward to his advantage. He will make a scene if the opposite occurs, and the button is moved forward twice to his detriment.

An angleshooter will attempt short buys if it is in his favor, but is the first to bust other players if they attempt a short buy, or he has the best of it in any situation and wants more of their money.

An angleshooter will deliberately miscall his hand, if he thinks he can get a new player to muck a better hand, then feign innocence if he is busted on the move. He is always, however, the first person to call foul if a new player accidentally misreads his hand, and tries to win the pot based on any technicality, whether he has a winning hand or not.

An angleshooter will be the first person to call for a clock if it is in his best interest to speed up the tournament at that time. He will also be the person who will intentionally stall a tournament when it is in his best interest. If caught, he will refuse to show his cards, quickly flinging them into the muck when a floorperson is called after he has intentionally stalled the action for five minutes.

Looking through some of Robert's Rules, and the TDA rules, I realize I could go on and on all day with this. The gist of the post, however, is that for every rule set up in attempt to thwart angleshooting, the shooters have manipulated it in order to shoot further angles.

A recent post gained a lot of attention on RGP about a women who was playing in a tournament and knew the guy to her left would call any rule in the book in order to gain an advantage. She knew, by playing against him before, that if anyone used the words "all-in" in ANY context whatsoever in a sentence, he would immediately call the floorman and demand the players put all of his chips into the center, as long as it gave this angleshooter an advantage.

So, knowing he was exploiting the rule, using a technicality to shoot a further angle, she waited until she had the best of it, made a small bet on the flop, let him raise her, and then threw a big fit about how every time she made a bet, he always raised. She really played it up, pretending like she was upset. She made sure to use the words "all-in" somewhere in her rant, saying something to the effect of, "You just won't be happy until you have me all-in, will you?"

Sure enough, he called the floor and demanded she put all of her chips in. Since she had flopped quads, she was only too happy to put them in.

When he saw her hand, he was upset, naturally, and then went on to call HER the angleshooter, and get the entire table on his side about the sleazy move she pulled.

While I am not defending her actions or trick at all, the fact is, he manipulated the rules in order to pull an angle, and got caught. She stayed one step ahead of him, and pulled her own. Sad that the rules are being so exploited like this, but I see it all the time.

Someone asked where the original RGP post was located. Here is the link: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.gambling.poker/browse_thread/thread/bd2455401f969e50/2facfa54749ae759?q=moral#2facfa54749ae759

I doubt that there will ever be a time when angleshooters will be stopped. It is our duty to keep the game as honest and above board as possible, even knowing the tricks that are being pulled all the time. There is really no other alternative, but that is poker.

The upside is that angleshooters are usually bad players. They need that extra edge to get even, or record a winner. I say "usually" because some of the best players I have played against are also cheats and angleshooters. Fortunately, they are the minority.

I'm glad this thread has gotten some attention, because some of these things have been on my mind a long time, and I have the opportunity today of addressing them.

Felicia :)
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